The great tyre debate, again

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Technoholic
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The great tyre debate, again

Sun May 05, 2019 2:43 pm

Hello all,

New member here, I've recently picked up a large 2011 LCI E70 40d from a BMW dealer. I've had it about 2 weeks but it's already been back because of what I consider to be pretty bad driving characteristics. It tramlines so badly to the point that it follows every little bump and rut in the road and this is especially worse at slow speeds. I know that with the wide front tyres this is inevitable to an extent but I felt it was too hard to drive, constantly throwing the wheel left or right. I showed them a video of it happening, as well as took the technician on a test drive who saw that when I released the wheel at slow speeds over slightly rough road, the steering wheel would twitch about and even turn itself 90 degrees left if the road made it do it.

They diagnosed that the lower control arm bushes were completely worn through, and changed them, however since picking it up, it certainly handles better in general, but this issue is still there. It's like the direction the car wants to go is at the mercy of the road. This is my 8th BMW from E92 to new 7 series and none have been like this. But they can't work out anything else wrong with it.

So that lads me to tyres. I currently have a set of Bridgestone Duelers RFT on there, more worn on front than back. I really want to swap them out for non RFTs as these Duelers seem terrible.

I know there is a lot of debate about going to non RFTs but it seems that if you change all 4 tyres at the same time, the problems that arise with transfer case etc don't seem to be as prevalent. Is that the case?

If so, I'm looking for recommendation of which tyres to go for. Currently looking at Vredestein Vortis or Toyo T1s but the Toyos don't have the correct load and speed rating on the rears.

Can anyone else suggest anything that can alleviate the tram lining and also any potential other non RFT tyres?

Thanks
Jayx5
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Re: The great tyre debate, again

Sun May 05, 2019 10:38 pm

Hi, would changing to non runflats invalidate your warranty?
I've recently got new rear bridgestone* marked tyres and had the tracking done and it drives alot better and doesn't grab the road as much.
Pedro C
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Re: The great tyre debate, again

Mon May 06, 2019 6:37 am

Alright fella. I'm in a similar boat to you with the recent car purchase. I've recently picked up exactly the same model/year as you. Mine is running staggered 20" wheels with Dunlop star rated RFTs.

My driving experience couldn't be further from your's. I was quite expecting the ride to be pretty crap, but quite honestly, I think its pretty good. I've definitely not encountered the tram lining issue you have.

I'm by no means an expert, but I would have thought changing the control arms would have made a difference. The other think I'd suggest you look into is getting a Hunter laser 4 wheel alignment by someone who is competent at using that machine. Most average tyre places have these alignment machines, but my experience with them is not good. I've taken the last three of my cars to the Tyre Shop, Chingford. They've recently done the alignment on the X5 and I thought it drove well before, but it made a noticeable difference.

Wheels in motion in Buckinghamshire have a pretty good reputation as well and I'm sure there are a few other good outfits around the country.

Silly question, but all your tyres are being run at the correct pressures? I run mine as per the drivers door sticker.
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Re: The great tyre debate, again

Mon May 06, 2019 9:29 pm

To answer your questions....

Yes you need to change the tyres as a set unless the wear is minimal on one axle compared to the others. As long as the difference is less than 1.5% (roughly 1.5mm) you should be OK.

You can run ‘*’ rated non-RFT as BMW offer them so no warranty issues. If you run non-‘*’ rated then BMW may well walk away from the warranty on any part of the transmission.

I’ve never had tramlining on any of my X cars and have always run at ‘factory’ pressures. I have Bridgestone Duellers on a 20” wheelset at present. I have run Dunlop and Pirelli on the same car with no issues either.
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mr angry
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Re: The great tyre debate, again

Mon May 06, 2019 10:25 pm

I have read varying hypothesis on mixing tyres with different tread wear causing transmission issues and to be honest I am not sold on any particular one. However if we look at the scenario whereby you suffer a puncture, would you be expected to replace all of the tyres if the puncture was not repairable?
Technoholic
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Re: The great tyre debate, again

Mon May 06, 2019 10:33 pm

X5Sport wrote: To answer your questions....

Yes you need to change the tyres as a set unless the wear is minimal on one axle compared to the others. As long as the difference is less than 1.5% (roughly 1.5mm) you should be OK.

You can run ‘*’ rated non-RFT as BMW offer them so no warranty issues. If you run non-‘*’ rated then BMW may well walk away from the warranty on any part of the transmission.

I’ve never had tramlining on any of my X cars and have always run at ‘factory’ pressures. I have Bridgestone Duellers on a 20” wheelset at present. I have run Dunlop and Pirelli on the same car with no issues either.
Do you know of any * marked tyres that are not runflats? I can’t find any.

I have the same tyres on my 20s at the moment, Duelers, and the tramlining is definitely noticeable. Increasing tyre pressure has alleviated a little but it’s still there. I’m struggling to see how tyres could play a massive part in this considering plenty of people like you run runflats in 20s without issue. But BMW say that all the suspension components are fine now, after changing those bushes. So that leads me to tyres. Or alignment which was done by BMW on their KDS machine but I wonder if it’s worth taking it elsewhere to see what they think?
mr angry
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Re: The great tyre debate, again

Mon May 06, 2019 11:03 pm

My E53 had Bridgestone Turanzas which were star rated non-runflats. They were excellent tyres but 19 inch. I see they do the 20 inch staggered sizes but no mention of being star rated in that size....strange. I think the michelin Diamaris are star rated non-runflats.
Technoholic
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Re: The great tyre debate, again

Mon May 06, 2019 11:06 pm

They are but unfortunately they have the wrong load rating
mr angry
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Re: The great tyre debate, again

Mon May 06, 2019 11:08 pm

Ah yes, just noticed that
Graeme
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Re: The great tyre debate, again

Mon May 06, 2019 11:22 pm

Over 165k miles I've run on Continentals, Bridgestone and Good Year run-flats with * rating, and Vredestein winter tyres non run flats. All on 19" wheels and always using the recommended pressures. I've not experienced tramlining. About 80k miles ago I had severe wear on the insides of the rears and had the car properly tracked front and back. The driving was noticeably better, even though it felt alright before. If BMW say all is well with the suspension I'd have a tyre specialist look at the tyres and as recommended above get someone with a Hunter alignment machine to set it up properly.
Leslie
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Re: The great tyre debate, again

Tue May 07, 2019 9:28 pm

Maybe test drive another x5 at a dealer as I had 21 inch well worn runflats for a while and expected them to be awful and they were not too bad at all and certainly didn't tramline everywhere :D
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Re: The great tyre debate, again

Thu May 09, 2019 1:44 am

Pedro C wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 6:37 am
Alright fella. I'm in a similar boat to you with the recent car purchase. I've recently picked up exactly the same model/year as you. Mine is running staggered 20" wheels with Dunlop star rated RFTs.

My driving experience couldn't be further from your's. I was quite expecting the ride to be pretty crap, but quite honestly, I think its pretty good. I've definitely not encountered the tram lining issue you have.

I'm the same I had read the horror reviews of the appalling ride quality but having purchased the vehicle, I think the ride is rather good, superb body control for the size and weight of the car. All the cars I've driven handle far worse. My car also doesn't tram line much at all and its the 20" staggered setup.
To me it suggests that your tracking is pretty badly out. A friend had a similar issue with his car, although it was a 330d. You need to do a 4 wheel alignment. I'd get BMW to do it.
Lyons
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Re: The great tyre debate, again

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:30 pm

Just picked my car up from having the transfer case clutch repair kit fitted. I removed the winter wheels a few weeks ago and as soon (or soon after, I can’t quite remember) fitting the 20’s I noticed a shuddering or vibration when driving forward / back with the steering turned.

This was the first time the car has had 20’s, so I’m not sure if the issue was always there when I bought it plus through the winter and it was just masked by the larger tyre profile of the 19’s. The 20’s have star rated Dunlop’s on the front and star rated Continentals on the rear. The car only has 1 owner before me and when I collected it it had Duellers on the 19” wheels, so I assume it has always had the correct tyres on it. Albeit those ones were down to the wire on the inside edge at the back.

This was the second transfer case my mechanic has done in the last few months on cars which have been using star rated tyres only. So there must be some other factor involved!

I’m currently deliberating whether I should ditch the Continentals and replace with Dunlop to match the front, or swap all 4 out for a set of Bridgestone. The Dunlop tramline quite badly, but then I read of other folk here that have tram lining with the Duellers!!

My head is wrecked!

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