* Marked Tyres - An Expensive Mistake (but not as bad as it could've been)

[X5Sport]

All that I can offer is that square setups with the same tyres all around do not seem to give anything like the problems that staggered setups do.  The key is to keep all four corners shod with exactly the same tyres (brand and model) and keep the tread depths close.  Changing tyres as a set is still a sensible approach as that means they all match, but adds to cost if one axle is very worn compared to the other.

I’m still amazed that this hasn’t hit the motoring press, but maybe it is so hard to definitively prove that it would be described (in modern parlance) as ‘fake news’ by the industry.

[aruek]

My two cents: I am new to X5s but we bought a 2011 18" all around two months ago or so... It had one front tire considerably worn that other 3. Car felt normal, no shudder, judder or nothing.
(Having tested another X5 with wrong size non RFT I knew what was the feeling under the car when steer lock from stop, awful ---- I am not considering that particular car as a good example since even though it was a not staggered X5 with non RFT, they weren't the correct size X5 uses, they were 235/60R18 so way too small for such a big car, I have no idea if would be the same with the correct size)

Anyway, I was afraid of damage something so I bought from a friend one tyre with same tread as the best of mine front tyres and installed.
On his car it was exactly the same. One of his front tyres was pretty bald compared to the others but he bought 2 new for the front discarded the bald one and kept the other which I bought from him a couple of weeks after.

I did installed a second hand set Pirelli this time one of the back axle was 1.5mm more worn than the others, it did not affect the car neither, but I only had them for 2 two days and went back to the Bridgestones. (Removed Pirelli because one got damaged and I wasn't willing to mix tyre manufacturers)

Maybe on non staggered set up there's no issues with uneven wear between tyres.
All this history was with * rated and RFT. I haven't tested non-RFT.




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[Chrispy]

On the basis of logic and the fact non RFT winters are offered by BMW for square setups it would make sense that non * marked tyres are ok for those with non staggered wheels.  My wife has just put a deposit down on an E84 X1 SE BMW AUC (so no staggered setup) and that has non RFT Pirelli cinturato p7's all round by the looks of things.  Jealous.....

Theoretically a 255/50/19 front and 285/45/19 rear would have the same rolling radius but it would appear that either due to less stringent manufacturing / QA processes, or the fact that non RFT tyres deliberately have more give in the sidewalls (resulting in unpredictable results once the weight of the car is on them) means the rolling radius might be just enough out to cause the 4x4 to moan a bit.  The more sensitive the car is to detecting slip (something BMW boast about with XDrive) the lower the tolerance for this being out of whack.

As I say, I measured my non RFT Hankooks prior to fitting and they were as far as I could tell the same RR, but my thinking is that changes once they're on the car due to weight and pressure variations.  Bit tricky to get string round them to measure the circumference once they're on the tarmac and see how much it's changed.  And my symptoms were far from pronounced like some of the horror stories I've read on here but sufficient enough for me to notice, and incidentally fixed by putting new Dueller HP's back on.   

[AdamsX5]

Went to view a car today and saw on front axle one tyre 275/40/20 and another 315/35/20.
And rears were 315/35/20. How dangerous is that ??
Hope my viewing next week is better.


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[X5Sport]

Oh dear!  That’s such a poor thing to have done - I wonder if it was sold to them like that?  Shows a serious lack of interest the product and says a lot about that seller too.  Did you point it out to them?  Handling could have been ‘interesting’, especially when cornering  :drive:

[AdamsX5]

[quote="X5Sport"]
Oh dear!  That’s such a poor thing to have done - I wonder if it was sold to them like that?  Shows a serious lack of interest the product and says a lot about that seller too.  Did you point it out to them?  Handling could have been ‘interesting’, especially when cornering  :drive:
[/quote]
It’s was Evanhalshaw Leeds motorhouse and the car is a 40d with staggered setup. However I drove a 40d 7 seater with 19” msports. Felt ok handling was great but it didn’t push it but it was quite vocal. My saloon 525d 3.0 feels more smoother.!Maybe it’s the weight and you need a lot of power to make it move.
Anyway it had no service history so I walked away as the only confirmed service was year at stratstone. It also lacked sat nav, panoramic roof and folding mirrors a Must for me. But had 7 seats and was quite cheap for a 40d.
Anyway waiting for next week an Alpine white one with good spec and full service history and all recalls done with prop shaft replaced this January 18.



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[Leslie]

Have just bought an e70sd with staggered style 227 20's and non runflats fitted (budget tyres by the look of it ) ,all tyres new and all seems fine for now . I certainly don't want to be fitting runflats due to the loss of ride quality and the additional cost if I don't need to.

[asoni]

I have a 40d with the 20" staggered wheels and about 3 months ago i switched to michelin latitude sport 3's non run flats all round. It had dueller run flats before which were on the way out and were terrible.

Ride was transformed. I'm sure a part of that is simply because they were new tyres, but mostly it's because they are non run flats.

Anyway i've done around 6k miles since then with no problems at all, including a 4k mile euro road trip last month. I don't have 7 seats but can't imagine an extra row of tiny seats would make that much difference to overall weight.

It's very weird how some people get problems and others don't.

[aruek]

Yes it is really something to keep looking at. Thanks for posting your experience.
Keep updating this thread later on please.[quote="asoni"]
I have a 40d with the 20" staggered wheels and about 3 months ago i switched to michelin latitude sport 3's non run flats all round. It had dueller run flats before which were on the way out and were terrible.

Ride was transformed. I'm sure a part of that is simply because they were new tyres, but mostly it's because they are non run flats.

Anyway i've done around 6k miles since then with no problems at all, including a 4k mile euro road trip last month. I don't have 7 seats but can't imagine an extra row of tiny seats would make that much difference to overall weight.

It's very weird how some people get problems and others don't.
[/quote]

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[aruek]

Between @chrispy Hankook and @asoni Michelin there might be a good different in manufacturers standard maybe that makes some impact.

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[X5Sport]

[quote="asoni"]
I don't have 7 seats but can't imagine an extra row of tiny seats would make that much difference to overall weight.
[/quote]

It’s about payload and weight on the rear axle.  You could have five warm bodies plus luggage well aft of centre which loads up the rear axle.  At rest its geometry is different as are the spring limits, damper rates and airbag pressures.  The 7-seater sits differently when unladen compared to the 5-seater.  You can also have different torque distribution and therefore drive loads on the overall system.  Added up this can make a 7-seater either more, or less susceptible to issues caused by tyre differences.

Tyres and the ratings are about dynamic as well as static loads.

[Leslie]

When you put the sizes into a tyre size calculator for an x5 e70 the 20's are a spot on 100% match front to rear but the 19's are 0.3% out ,not a lot but if the system doesn't like anything over 1.5% difference they you don't want to be starting with an error even on new tyres which will only get worse as they wear at different rates.

[AdamsX5]

[quote="asoni"]
I have a 40d with the 20" staggered wheels and about 3 months ago i switched to michelin latitude sport 3's non run flats all round. It had dueller run flats before which were on the way out and were terrible.

Ride was transformed. I'm sure a part of that is simply because they were new tyres, but mostly it's because they are non run flats.

Anyway i've done around 6k miles since then with no problems at all, including a 4k mile euro road trip last month. I don't have 7 seats but can't imagine an extra row of tiny seats would make that much difference to overall weight.

It's very weird how some people get problems and others don't.
[/quote]
Thanks for sharing your experience.
When I rang dealership they said they had changed the rears to new tyres and they were Delta accura runflats I think 315/35/20.
Which means they have never been driven so I’m hoping the previous owner had bridgestones on as he had tyres changed at bmw dealers.

I’m in 2 minds changing those tyres but don’t won’t any transfer box issues obviously. I may try to negotiate a price reduction as they have installed the wrong type of tyre as per manual or bmw recommendations. Not sure it will do much but worth a shot.


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[AdamsX5]

[quote="X5Sport"]
All that I can offer is that square setups with the same tyres all around do not seem to give anything like the problems that staggered setups do.  The key is to keep all four corners shod with exactly the same tyres (brand and model) and keep the tread depths close.  Changing tyres as a set is still a sensible approach as that means they all match, but adds to cost if one axle is very worn compared to the other.

I’m still amazed that this hasn’t hit the motoring press, but maybe it is so hard to definitively prove that it would be described (in modern parlance) as ‘fake news’ by the industry.
[/quote]
Would a 2mm difference in thread depth(5.8mm to 7.8mm) on the same axle cause issues even if tyres were both star marked.


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[Horizon]

Every time you drive your car , every bend, every corner, the wheels will be rotating at different rates, hence the need for differentials , members on here who have had star marked tyres fitted from new have had transfer boxes fail on the E70's.
I agree that tyres are very important regards rolling circumference, as I had a problem with my then X3 , which I changed to a square setup which stopped the transmission wind up, stopped the noises and the tyre slippage.
We buy cars we desire to enjoy them, the trouble can be that we get paranoid about them breaking, costing us even more money.
We can't sleep unless we have a bullet proof warranty.